Guess I'm Not Alone

[gunther]

Pulled offa Craigslist today, 10 Mar 11. Sez everything I've been saying about this apparent braindead area:

Wow, I moved here a couple of years ago and am just overwhelmed almost daily by "musician's inhumanity to musicians".

Ripped off, half-paid, promises from people who mysteriously disappear, stories that you once said something to someone - who you never even met, "players" unable to face the most obvious truths about anything, "players" who only gig to get shitfaced or get laid, cancellations for reasons you find out later are not only utter BS, but don't even make sense - What is it about this place? Workaday people appear absolutely no better, but you'd think MAYBE musicians might be a little bit more honest. You got enough crooks here for 12 states.


I am only mentioning this today because I tried to use a pickup that was included in a trade, and of course, it's useless junk. I threw it in the drawer with other useless junk accumulated - speakers that turned out to be cracked, recorders with input channels that don't function, AC adapters that don't function. I do know one really nice, honest guy that's from here, who told me NOT to buy cables from the guy who advertises all kinds of cables on here. Can someone recommend anyone who does honest work or doesn't try to rip you off?

Response - In FLORIDA??? Nope

Response from someone I know - I know Fl sucks. I had lived there but almost starved to death and had to put up with alot of shit from Nazi Bosses on shit gigs, befor the commercials came through. Now I do the teaching thing in the schools too. xxxxxxxx is a tottally hippy town green hair, three chord, hoop nosed singer songwriter shit for free beer and out of tune mountian music crap. mostly. If you could team up with a road situation with someone doing something that would be great. You are an incredible player. Wish I had A million bucks, I'd give you half. Charlie

Response - I really am sorry you even came here. I lived here most of my life being taken advantage of and getting ripped off. 18 years old and I hate this place. In September last year I moved to Tennessee for 5 months and loved it so much. Every morning on the way to work everyone on my street waved to me. I had my own little mechanic shop I went to a my little old man at the gas station where he'd walk on out and pump your gas for you. Florida is just a wasteland. The people have no souls and you can't even grow anything in the dang natural soil here. It's just straight up dead. I rescently came back just because my family is here and I wanted to attend a Florida college for free. But if you'd like to meet an good honest drummer and want to jam give me a hollar. It's good to find people you can trust seeing as small trust circles are hard to make with so many rotten apples in this place. Good luck though.

MY response - not really into jamming anymore - I can hardly believe it but I'm in my fifties. I have my own 13 year old son who I'm just utterly, totally crazy about. Funny you mention Tennessee. I have lived there a couple of times. First time I lived in Nashville, I really had no steady income and it was hard. You get exposed to the bottom rung, wherever it is. Last time (03-05) I had a great income, was not dependent on music and I just loved it - I could go down to lower Broadway and sit in without having to hope that someone would throw a quarter in the tip jar all the time. I loved getting up every morning, loved the greenery, the hills, the water that acually flows somewhere.

I came back because I refused to have my son grow up with a dad 750 miles away. And man, I am STRUGGLING - you just would not believe how much. But I'll tell you, during the interim, when I was living in the Nashville area, but flying back every other weekend to see my son, I could see the tension, anger and ugliness so clearly that I could cut it with a knife. It's never gone away - if anything, it just keeps getting worse and worse and every day I find confirmation that the people here are dead inside - there is not a shred of humanity left - if someone DID wave at you, you'd think they wanted something from you, right? Humanity gets stomped out instantly and eventually people just stop trying and stop feeling. I'm glad that I still know the difference.

Response: Once upon a time, we had a strong musicians Union that looked after its' members. Not like that anymore. Right to work state is the worst thing that ever happened to Florida. Unions started to get crooked around the late '60's and then it just got so awful. They were looking for anything on your contract that was out of place to collect a fee. It was obscene. When I worked in Akron, Ohio; my band and I were treated with respect from the union. They really looked out for us and we really appreciated it. This state is a hub state. It's called that because everything in business either ends here or, goes back to where it came from. I always think of it kind of like teflon. Nothing sticks. I am going on 62 and, after playing down here for 40years, it's the pits.

Response - We're out there...in amongst the throngs of scumbags...Pinellas seems to be particularly bad for some reason. I moved from up north to Largo about 10 years ago and couldn't believe the people I met down here. Good luck and don't let this place change you like it has so many others - there are lots of us that would waive back or ask how you're doing if we passed you on the sidewalk, we'd just be floored to see that type of friendly behavior down here...

Response - you are SO right - you hit the nail on the head. And I noticed that your original post got flagged - big surprise. The majority of the people down here who call themselves musicians aren't that at all - and they wouldn't recognize an actual musician if one came up played Take Five for solo guitar for them - they wouldn't know what it was if it didn't have only three chords. Musicians here look for - "what can this guy do to make me look better? If I hire him am I going to get some work from someone he knows? Does he have a cute younger sister? How little can I get away with paying this guy? A thought like "Can this guy make the band sound better and bring it up to the next level?" is the FARTHEST thing from otheanyone's minds. If I hire this guy, who am I going to piss off and how are they going to try get back at me?. Music here isn't an art - it's a crime. If you're a true player, you leave and you laugh about this place from far away.

[drumminman]

I saw that post. I thought it was you gunther. Sure sounds the the rantings of some maniac troll, even if it were all true.

[gunther]

No, not a "manic troll." No, not me. Just a bunch of real professional musicians who've come to Florida to find the same things I have.

And it is all true. Perhaps you see yourself in their posts? I do.

Mar 10, 2011 18:21:07 GMT -5 drumminman said:

I saw that post. I thought it was you gunther. Sure sounds the the rantings of some maniac troll, even if it were all true.

[woodbutcher]

Funny Stuff

[drumminman]

It must really suck to be gunther.

[woodbutcher]

Don't fight it, drumminman.
Look at it as cheap entertainment.
Just sit back and enjoy the laughs.

[Fight Another Day]

Don't post guntherface, practice!

[drumminman]

Oh, I'm not fighting it. I do like to stir the pot once in a while, though. I've been a working musician since the early 70's. I even owned a teaching studio for 20 years. I've seen a bunch like him. For years, nay decades, I've been referring to this type personality as a "prima-donna", although they're usually guitar players. He even adds a degree of arrogance. They know everything about everything, and their "stuff" doesn't stink, either. "Bow Before Me All You Peons".

[woodbutcher]

Mar 11, 2011 22:14:19 GMT -5 drumminman said:

Oh, I'm not fighting it. I do like to stir the pot once in a while, though. I've been a working musician since the early 70's. I even owned a teaching studio for 20 years. I've seen a bunch like him. For years, nay decades, I've been referring to this type personality as a "prima-donna", although they're usually guitar players. He even adds a degree of arrogance. They know everything about everything, and their "stuff" doesn't stink, either. "Bow Before Me All You Peons".

I don't mind a little pot-stirring. I just usually do it for fun not as a means of attacking someone else to make myself feel better or more important.
I teach the occasional master class over at Jeff Berlin's school. Pot stirring is, kind of, mandatory over there. ;D
I'm a little younger than you but did my first road work in 1971, managed a retail store in the mid-80's while teaching 40 to 50 students a week and playing 5 nights a week at a resort hotel and then went on to work in the Music Products Industry for the last 25 years so, like you, I've seen these types plenty of times before (again, usually guitar players but I guess they come in other flavors as well).
You can't blame this on Miami. I work with a drummer who was there around the same time as Gunther. There's no bitterness in him at all. He's wonderful to play with and even better to be around.

[rgplayer]

Makes me NOT want to do anything here in FL with music,,,,might just go back to DC

[driftwoodtide]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing that its tough here, but I will say that this isn't a Florida problem. I've lived a lot of places - the west, the midwest, and the south. In addition to all the places I've lived, I have had pretty good connections to a number of other areas. My two cents after dragging my family around the country over the years is that these types of problems and issues are widespread, but in spite of it there is evidence of success of glimmers of hope everywhere I have ever been. I did most of my growing up in a town of 400 people, where everyone knew everyone - a little town lost in time almost. there was no music scene at all. Once a year there would be live music as part of a town celebration, and thats it. 1/2 hour away was a town of maybe 30,000. The music scene was small, but fun. not much money, not very many venues, but a lot of talent and a few places to show it off. most the bands new each other pretty well. I opened my first studio there and didn't get rich but had fun, learned a lot, and managed to make a few bucks here and there. 90 minutes away there were almost an endless number of places to play, including some really good paying gigs. lots of high quality studios, and plenty of places to talk shop, buy gear, and network. In between - some towns that were terrible for music, and some that were ok. We had to travel around a bit to get good gigs.

I've pretty much found the same to be true everywhere. If your music scene sucks, there is usually one within an hour or two that is better. and if you think you live in music mecca, you might be surprised to find out that just around the corner is a town thats musician hell.

in fact, to take it one step farther, there are musicians in the same town who will have amazing experiences and success, while others around them never seem to find their footing and hate the place. Part of it is attitude, part of it talent, and unfortunately a big chunk of it is luck.

music and musicians are in a strange spot - the big commercially promoted artists are often overvalued and the unknown (and often more talented) musicians often undervalued as a whole by society. Its nice to see some of these undervalued musicians get their big break from time to time, and frankly its even nicer in some ways to see them being very successful in spite of not "making it big".

music is a tough business, always has been and always will be. the days of instant downloads have made some things better and somethings worse. Its a tough road to navigate, I definitely agree on that.

but these issues go beyond music. Talk to 20-30 nurses at random and see what feedback you get, or a bunch of factory workers, or a bunch of salespeople. While each situation is different, other industries and other forms of entertainment face similar challenges also with dishonesty, devaluation of their profession, lack of good work, stiff competition, and more.

I don't know that I've furthered the conversation much, but I'll end by saying that I've seen a few good friends literally be driven crazy over the years trying to "make it" in this business. Figuring out if you should just do music as a passion or a profession isn't easy, and sometimes you don't like the answer. But when you have the right answer, its easier to be happy, whether that means you are a weekend warrior or a professional. So if you love it - keep at it, don't ever give up on your dreams...but in this business, it might be good to have a backup plan or at least a second skill that you can lean on (ie Teaching, running live sound, etc).

Its a tough business and Tampa is a tough area, I will agree with that 100%. At the same time I know its possible to have success here in spite of that.